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	<title>Comments on: Florida Suing Countrywide</title>
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		<title>By: Jennifer in Louisville</title>
		<link>http://agbeat.com/real-estate-news-events/media-coverage/florida-suing-countrywide/#comment-12707</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer in Louisville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 16:14:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agentgenius.com/?p=2320#comment-12707</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a big believer in people taking responsibility for their own actions.  It shouldn&#039;t be a government&#039;s (or anyone else&#039;s) responsibility to eliminate all possible downsides.  If I go to Las Vegas and bet the house on black, and it comes up red - that stinks, but its my own fault.  I was greedy.  And if I didn&#039;t understand the rules, or potential downsides - I should have asked questions until I did understand, or not play the game.  I recognize that not all persons caught up in this mess were greedy - but quite a few probably were.  They were so anxious to jump into the &quot;hot real estate market&quot; that they took a chance, and were relying mostly on appreciation to build an equity position in the property - and if they took an ARM, they could get an even more expensive property than they could otherwise, and build more equity because the rate of appreciation was working off a much larger number.  It didn&#039;t work out for them, which is a shame.  But at some point you should put some of the responsibility back on the people that took the big risks in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a big believer in people taking responsibility for their own actions.  It shouldn&#8217;t be a government&#8217;s (or anyone else&#8217;s) responsibility to eliminate all possible downsides.  If I go to Las Vegas and bet the house on black, and it comes up red &#8211; that stinks, but its my own fault.  I was greedy.  And if I didn&#8217;t understand the rules, or potential downsides &#8211; I should have asked questions until I did understand, or not play the game.  I recognize that not all persons caught up in this mess were greedy &#8211; but quite a few probably were.  They were so anxious to jump into the &#8220;hot real estate market&#8221; that they took a chance, and were relying mostly on appreciation to build an equity position in the property &#8211; and if they took an ARM, they could get an even more expensive property than they could otherwise, and build more equity because the rate of appreciation was working off a much larger number.  It didn&#8217;t work out for them, which is a shame.  But at some point you should put some of the responsibility back on the people that took the big risks in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: Glenn fm Naples</title>
		<link>http://agbeat.com/real-estate-news-events/media-coverage/florida-suing-countrywide/#comment-12683</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn fm Naples</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 12:17:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agentgenius.com/?p=2320#comment-12683</guid>
		<description>Even though the state of Florida has decided to sue Countrywide, the consensus of opinion that it will be a fruitless suit while very little or nothing gained for the consumers.

I totally agree that an Option ARM when used correctly was a good financing vehicle.

As Ken, pointed there were people that thought their homes were an ATM, hence they may not have the financial skills to handle the option ARM or any mortgage for that matter.

As real estate agents we should as much as we can to explain the pro&#039;s and con&#039;s of loan programs that are out there or that our clients are considering - we have to be educators, not just salespeople.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even though the state of Florida has decided to sue Countrywide, the consensus of opinion that it will be a fruitless suit while very little or nothing gained for the consumers.</p>
<p>I totally agree that an Option ARM when used correctly was a good financing vehicle.</p>
<p>As Ken, pointed there were people that thought their homes were an ATM, hence they may not have the financial skills to handle the option ARM or any mortgage for that matter.</p>
<p>As real estate agents we should as much as we can to explain the pro&#8217;s and con&#8217;s of loan programs that are out there or that our clients are considering &#8211; we have to be educators, not just salespeople.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Connolly</title>
		<link>http://agbeat.com/real-estate-news-events/media-coverage/florida-suing-countrywide/#comment-12655</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Connolly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 05:31:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agentgenius.com/?p=2320#comment-12655</guid>
		<description>Ken, I agree that for the educated Buyer, an ARM may be a perfect solution. As long as they are fully aware of the risks. I have just talked to too many (smart) people close to foreclosure who really didn&#039;t have a clue, and I don&#039;t think the agents are entirely blameless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken, I agree that for the educated Buyer, an ARM may be a perfect solution. As long as they are fully aware of the risks. I have just talked to too many (smart) people close to foreclosure who really didn&#8217;t have a clue, and I don&#8217;t think the agents are entirely blameless.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Smith</title>
		<link>http://agbeat.com/real-estate-news-events/media-coverage/florida-suing-countrywide/#comment-12653</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 05:22:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agentgenius.com/?p=2320#comment-12653</guid>
		<description>Dan without full disclosure of all financial information and future plans no agent can know if an ARM is the best product for their client or not. There are some real solid reasons to use an ARM and these days everyone seems to be forgetting about that. The buyer just needs to understand how high the rates, more important the payment, can go and when. If someone preaches &quot;get a 30 year mortgage&quot; and thinks that ARM&#039;s are evil then they are costing many of their clients a lot of money. An ARM is not a &quot;mistake&quot; if used correctly.

Agree that most brokers really want their agents to stay away from talking about mortgages. A large part of this is that most agents don&#039;t have a clue about loan products. I have talked to more &quot;experienced&quot; agents that after 30+ years in the business still don&#039;t know about mortgages then ones that do.

Personally we get very involved with the financial side of the business, but not every client is willing to talk about it with us (that is when the privacy thing is a real issue). Even with educating buyers about mortgage products including the risks and advantages of these products, and telling them not to put themselves into a position to be mortgage poor, not every client listens. Wish they all did, but you can only lead a horse to water as they say.

Pretty sure we agree that an agent should educate their clients, naturally after educating themselves. What I was taking issue with is I just don&#039;t feel an agent can ever make a client take a loan product therefor how can the agent be &quot;responsible&quot; for their clients choice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan without full disclosure of all financial information and future plans no agent can know if an ARM is the best product for their client or not. There are some real solid reasons to use an ARM and these days everyone seems to be forgetting about that. The buyer just needs to understand how high the rates, more important the payment, can go and when. If someone preaches &#8220;get a 30 year mortgage&#8221; and thinks that ARM&#8217;s are evil then they are costing many of their clients a lot of money. An ARM is not a &#8220;mistake&#8221; if used correctly.</p>
<p>Agree that most brokers really want their agents to stay away from talking about mortgages. A large part of this is that most agents don&#8217;t have a clue about loan products. I have talked to more &#8220;experienced&#8221; agents that after 30+ years in the business still don&#8217;t know about mortgages then ones that do.</p>
<p>Personally we get very involved with the financial side of the business, but not every client is willing to talk about it with us (that is when the privacy thing is a real issue). Even with educating buyers about mortgage products including the risks and advantages of these products, and telling them not to put themselves into a position to be mortgage poor, not every client listens. Wish they all did, but you can only lead a horse to water as they say.</p>
<p>Pretty sure we agree that an agent should educate their clients, naturally after educating themselves. What I was taking issue with is I just don&#8217;t feel an agent can ever make a client take a loan product therefor how can the agent be &#8220;responsible&#8221; for their clients choice.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Connolly</title>
		<link>http://agbeat.com/real-estate-news-events/media-coverage/florida-suing-countrywide/#comment-12645</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Connolly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 04:39:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agentgenius.com/?p=2320#comment-12645</guid>
		<description>Ken, I think that there are a lot of situations where agents walk new first timers through the entire process and happily look at the sky and whistle when the Buyers opt for a ARM to buy more house. It is not about the privacy act, it is about Yay! higher sales price! You don&#039;t have to know anything about how much money they make or what the credit score is to explain how high the payments can go. Most lenders aren&#039;t going to do it.

I have heard over the years, many of the Buyers tell me that the lender was selling the ARM loans with the idea that if the payment got too high they could always refinance to a fixed rate or just sell the house (in the days leading up to this market). At which point I would tell them that that works unless the market goes flat (like if world war 3 starts), or if the loan programs end.

I know a lot of Brokers tell their agents to stay out of areas like financing and inspection, but I think if you take the fiduciary obligations seriously you have to offer advice based on your experience and expertise.  I think there is more danger of lawsuit by not sticking your nose in. The privacy act only means you need their permission to look at their credit and income.

If you can make money without getting involved, more power to you. I have been selling for 22 years. I have  a lot of clients on their 3rd or 4th house. I won&#039;t let anyone make mistakes with their loans, at least not with out hearing what I think about it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken, I think that there are a lot of situations where agents walk new first timers through the entire process and happily look at the sky and whistle when the Buyers opt for a ARM to buy more house. It is not about the privacy act, it is about Yay! higher sales price! You don&#8217;t have to know anything about how much money they make or what the credit score is to explain how high the payments can go. Most lenders aren&#8217;t going to do it.</p>
<p>I have heard over the years, many of the Buyers tell me that the lender was selling the ARM loans with the idea that if the payment got too high they could always refinance to a fixed rate or just sell the house (in the days leading up to this market). At which point I would tell them that that works unless the market goes flat (like if world war 3 starts), or if the loan programs end.</p>
<p>I know a lot of Brokers tell their agents to stay out of areas like financing and inspection, but I think if you take the fiduciary obligations seriously you have to offer advice based on your experience and expertise.  I think there is more danger of lawsuit by not sticking your nose in. The privacy act only means you need their permission to look at their credit and income.</p>
<p>If you can make money without getting involved, more power to you. I have been selling for 22 years. I have  a lot of clients on their 3rd or 4th house. I won&#8217;t let anyone make mistakes with their loans, at least not with out hearing what I think about it!</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Smith</title>
		<link>http://agbeat.com/real-estate-news-events/media-coverage/florida-suing-countrywide/#comment-12609</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 02:19:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agentgenius.com/?p=2320#comment-12609</guid>
		<description>@ Dan - Not sure how an agent can ever be responsible unless they are also originating the loan. We advertise Buyer Agent services, but we do not see the buyers credit report or financial situation as that is all covered by the privacy act. There is no way for me to know if a person is making the correct or incorrect decision with the type or amount of a mortgage no matter how much hand holding we do.

There have been more then a few times that people surprise me with the type of mortgage they take out. When we are out looking at homes they are talking about a 30 year fix and then at the closing table I find out they switched loan products to an ARM. They make the decision, not the agent. 

Maybe I am missing something and the type of promises you are talking about go beyond what we see in our market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Dan &#8211; Not sure how an agent can ever be responsible unless they are also originating the loan. We advertise Buyer Agent services, but we do not see the buyers credit report or financial situation as that is all covered by the privacy act. There is no way for me to know if a person is making the correct or incorrect decision with the type or amount of a mortgage no matter how much hand holding we do.</p>
<p>There have been more then a few times that people surprise me with the type of mortgage they take out. When we are out looking at homes they are talking about a 30 year fix and then at the closing table I find out they switched loan products to an ARM. They make the decision, not the agent. </p>
<p>Maybe I am missing something and the type of promises you are talking about go beyond what we see in our market.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Connolly</title>
		<link>http://agbeat.com/real-estate-news-events/media-coverage/florida-suing-countrywide/#comment-12607</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Connolly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 01:17:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agentgenius.com/?p=2320#comment-12607</guid>
		<description>I also think agents walk a fine line, especially the ones who advertise themselves as Buyer&#039;s agents and offer the clients help navigating the process. Agents frequently promise to hold hands and make it a worry free, no hassle experience. These agents are also responsible if their clients choose an arm they can&#039;t afford!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also think agents walk a fine line, especially the ones who advertise themselves as Buyer&#8217;s agents and offer the clients help navigating the process. Agents frequently promise to hold hands and make it a worry free, no hassle experience. These agents are also responsible if their clients choose an arm they can&#8217;t afford!</p>
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		<title>By: Robert D. Ashby</title>
		<link>http://agbeat.com/real-estate-news-events/media-coverage/florida-suing-countrywide/#comment-12600</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert D. Ashby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 23:32:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agentgenius.com/?p=2320#comment-12600</guid>
		<description>Ken and Erin,

Nice discussion and you are right that the homowners should have known better.  ARMs a very beneficial loan programs, even the Option ARM.  I just did a post on the demise of the Option ARM on my own blog (&lt;a href=&quot;http://flmortgagereport.com/?p=804&quot;&gt;Death of the Best Loan Program Out There&lt;/a&gt;) talking about the exact reasons you mentioned and how they have eliminated the Option ARM from most (if not all) lenders&#039; portfolios.  Ken hit the nail on the head as to why most homeowners are facing foreclosure with his last comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken and Erin,</p>
<p>Nice discussion and you are right that the homowners should have known better.  ARMs a very beneficial loan programs, even the Option ARM.  I just did a post on the demise of the Option ARM on my own blog (<a href="http://flmortgagereport.com/?p=804">Death of the Best Loan Program Out There</a>) talking about the exact reasons you mentioned and how they have eliminated the Option ARM from most (if not all) lenders&#8217; portfolios.  Ken hit the nail on the head as to why most homeowners are facing foreclosure with his last comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Smith</title>
		<link>http://agbeat.com/real-estate-news-events/media-coverage/florida-suing-countrywide/#comment-12599</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 23:04:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agentgenius.com/?p=2320#comment-12599</guid>
		<description>Erin there is no question that the buyers in MOST cases are the ones that should be held responsible.  They signed the mortgage, they should have understood their risks, many lied on the mortgage application, many used their homes as an ATM machine, and in the end they agreed to pay back the mortgage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erin there is no question that the buyers in MOST cases are the ones that should be held responsible.  They signed the mortgage, they should have understood their risks, many lied on the mortgage application, many used their homes as an ATM machine, and in the end they agreed to pay back the mortgage.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Eibner</title>
		<link>http://agbeat.com/real-estate-news-events/media-coverage/florida-suing-countrywide/#comment-66979</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Eibner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 21:12:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agentgenius.com/?p=2320#comment-66979</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;we&#039;re at it again Florida Suing Countrywide: Getting out of the feed reader and comment.. http://tinyurl.com/6r53j6&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">we&#8217;re at it again Florida Suing Countrywide: Getting out of the feed reader and comment.. http://tinyurl.com/6r53j6</span></span></span></p>
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