I’m ALL ABOUT inspiration!

I was done!

But since you addressed me by name, I’ll add that you’ve done a fantastic job of expanding your thoughts here and I appreciate that. You’ve not changed my mind, but I am inspired to write my own post about this subject.

And if the NAR is reading- you might consider the Zebra for your PR machine!

Hey, good to see you! Or, read you, or comment with you, whatever Good points. I didn’t fully address them in the post for the sake of brevity, but since you brought them up, I’ll expand a little bit here. This comment isn’t directed specifically at you, per se, but I’ll use your points as a framework.

First, the Internet can do a lot of great things, it cannot, however, replace the need for pooling of resources. This is especially true in the pooling of national resources. The Internet can certainly make the process more effective, and reduce the need for as many phone conversations, letters, and meetings. The Internet can make the meetings that do happen much more effective by enhancing the ability to exchange information beforehand, but it cannot replace the need for people to sit down with each other and discuss certain issues face-to-face.

The Internet is also not necessarily the most effective way to actually implement certain plans of action. It can always enhance them, but it cannot replace the power of actual, face-to-face interpersonal relationships. Whoulda thunk it?

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The power of NAR’s research department is overlooked. When the Federal Government needs housing sales statistics, they go to NAR. When foreign governments need data on the American housing market, they go to NAR. When private equity firms need data on the American housing market, they go do NAR. NO ONE has a source of data that is even remotely as reliable or up-to-date as NAR. Look, people may not always agree with their forecasts or data interpretation, but the fact of the matter is, when you hear data on the American housing market, regardless of where you hear it, that data probably exists, either in part or in whole, as a result of the efforts of the NAR research department.

Can you imagine how EXCRUCIATING it would be to poll every locality in AMERICA for housing data? Just try and call my county office. They’ll tell you to come into the deed book room and go through them for yourself. Oh, and the deed book will be a few weeks behind, too.

Even in areas that don’t have an MLS, the bulk of data still comes from the local REALTOR boards and their member brokers.

Without NAR, housing market research in America would be a very different world.

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The issue that I see with most arguments about the irrelevance of NAR is that come from a vacuum perspective. That is, they exist RIGHT NOW, about RIGHT NOW, and from very narrow perspectives.

Just as a baseline, the practice of real estate would not be where it is today without NAR. One cannot just ignore the last 100 years because they believe that NAR runs a bad public awareness campaign. The concepts behind companies like Trulia, Zillow, et al. are what they are because of NAR. Let’s not forget that the first entity that put all the listings in one place was, in fact, NAR. Now, you can most certainly argue that a better job could have been done, but until REALTOR.com existed, no one had ever done that before.

Look, I think that REALTOR.com is a rip-off, but it is a rip-off because of its success. Competition from other sources will improve sites like REALTOR.com, which is still the closest thing the country has to being able to find all the listings in one place. And, with all due respect to the various competing Web 2.0 property and data aggregators, they are all still very young. I like many things about them, they have their own issues, but only time will tell if they are truly viable alternatives. When they start turning a consistent profit and are able to stick around for a few years, then we will have something. Until then, it’s just a popularity contest in search of the next VC funding commitment.

As far as NAR’s technological prowess is concerned, NAR is far more technologically advanced than I think most people give it credit for. NAR has multiple blogs, the staff of NAR are very aware of what goes on in the blogosphere and Web 2.0. The executives know what time it is, people. They are not stupid.

Are their obstacles to doing what NAR would like to do, of course. It is a large organization. If I want to do something today, I can start on it tomorrow. NAR simply can’t do that, for better or worse. There is inertia that must be overcome. That doesn’t mean that NAR is oblivious, or worse, intentionally ignorant. Things are most certainly changing there on a daily basis, its just that it might not be as fast as we would expect. But then again, I’m responsible to/for one person. NAR, on the other hand. . .

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As far as consumer benefit is concerned, consumers have most certainly benefited from the efforts of NAR, whether or not they know it. Fair Housing, RESPA, urban planning, zoning, affordable housing, all of these have had, at one time or another, the input and influence of NAR. That’s what I’m talking about when I talk about the voice of NAR. Sure, Daniel Rothamel can talk all he wants to about the benefit of Fair Housing. So can Teri Lussier, but putting those voice together along with those of so many others, and speaking with a clear voice is something that NAR is much better equipped to do than any other organization.

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Humans are social animals. Despite what we may think, or want to believe, we run in packs. If NAR disappeared tomorrow, SOMETHING would take it’s place, you can be sure of that. You cannot have over 1 million people doing something without them wanting to do that something together. We all know this, the success of sites like AG and BHB are a testament to the desire of people to gather with others and share, learn, grow, and act together. Otherwise, we would all just write on ideas on paper, stick them in drawers or closets, and live in solitude. You can say whatever you want about individual will, and the people “thinking for themselves,” but in the end, people want to come together.

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I’m glad NAR is around (even though I think it could be better). I’ll say it. Call me a shill, call me a lackey, call me naive, whatever. I know what I am. I also know that at the very least, without NAR, I can think of more than one of you I might never have met, or maybe that I would have met too late.

That fact, in and of itself, is worth $110 to me.

No. It. Doesn’t. Consumers do not click onto WebMD and self-perform prostate surgery.

Scott-

The focus of the discussion follows the title of the post. There is no conflict w/subject matter. My concern here is with my clients. The End.

Don’t bring my mama into this!
And I don’t know about your mom, but my mom is very happy and proud that she raised a daughter who has the brains and drive to push as hard she can do the best she can for her clients. She raised me to soar, and is thrilled when I do that. The NAR, if it’s my mom, will respond the same.

While Barry needs no defending from me, my thoughts about this debate:
Creative people grow through conflict. Only conflict can create change, we do not change when things are stagnant. Barry is, first and foremost, a real estate consumer. He buys real estate. His voice should be heard, and paid attention to, regardless of whether you like the tone of this particular consumer’s voice or not.

And I have to agree with Barry “…it’s been had and it’s done.”

See ya on Twitter, Matthew!

As you write..Bill is “passionate” about the NAR, and I for one am not. It’s not about walking away. I find the NAR utterly useless and void of any substance. If I haeld the same passion as Bill did in any regard for the NAR there would certainly be cause for debate. Unfortunately I do not have that passion. I am completely indifferent to the NAR.

there is no intent to destroy it, they do a good enough job of that on their own IMO, I just could care less about the NAR.

Doesn’t make Bill right, and it certainly does not mak him wrong. It’s just that it does not matter in the slightest to me and whether the NAR is here, lives on in a diminished capacity, or goes away completely would not have any consequence on my ability to exist and prosper in real estate.

I am not in a position to debate what Bill feels, I respect his opinion, but I am completely indifferent as to the NAR. Others can choose to champion the NAR cause. It’s a free will choice.

My question..which began this post by Daniel was well responded to and accordingly, I rest..most if they did not have to, would not be NAR members.

That was my sole reason for being here as to this post. I thought the initial question was about fostering change and I was all for that!!

Yet, somehow this whole thing turned into an NAR pep rally..which I chose to exit from.

It’s easy to see NAR as the far-off villain, out of touch, ineffectual, basking in past glories, slow to change, unenlightened, and tired. And in certain contexts, those adjectives absolutely apply (and apply to some state and local assns, too). Yet I don’t exactly think the patient is quite ready to be euthanized just yet.

While I get (and agree with many of) Barry’s and Teri’s points, I’m troubled by the seeming lack of appreciation for (or maybe I mean awareness of?) the monumental success your National Association of REALTORS has achieved in helping create the orderly marketplace that so many of you — even those who are cutting edge in your real estate practice — enjoy today. It’s sort of like looking at your middle-aged mom, with her wrinkles and graying hair and increasingly stodgy ways, discounting all she’s done for you, and deciding she’s somehow worth less because she can’t keep up with you as well as she used to.

I’ve never sold real estate but I’ve been in REALTOR association management for 20 years now (and I’ve stayed in far too many Holiday Inn Express’s to count), and I can tell you that your association is only as good as those who engage themselves in its processes. Time was when REALTORS saw it as being in their enlightened sell interest to get involved, even storm the gates from time to time, to effect change and encourage progress…for the GREATER good. I’m not hearing a lot about greater good anymore. Instead, I’m seeing far too much of the arrogance of the tech-empowered, hyper competent…as if railing against all we don’t like about the profession will somehow magically make incompetence (and organized real estate) immediately disappear. Good luck with that.

We can rant about the nincompoops in this profession. But the fact is, for the near term…and ‘near-term’ always seems to be longer than anyone expects…those are the same folks sitting across the closing table from you. Might it not be better to work collectively to lift their competence so that they’re not wreaking havoc in your transactions? THAT’S enlightened self-interest.

And we can rail against NAR (sweet, dull, dear old Mom). But we may be missing the extraordinary power she represents. It’s that power that can change many, many of the things that are wrong with the profession today (including some of the messaging we’re seeing from NAR, but aslo much more). NAR is led by folks who step up to the plate. They may not always be the brightest folks, but usually they are. The point is, they see it in their enlightened self-interest to engage and lead the association.

If you don’t like where your associations are headed, perhaps you’re not considering your enlightened self-interests?

Too much of divide, never going to bridge that gap..so it’s time to move on in this regard.

Do I think that technology is the answer to the consumer’s needs? No, I think it’s a means to provide better customer service. Getting to sit down with a client and make a personal connection is the best thing a practitioner can do. Interacting with people on their preferred mode of communications is vitally important and I don’t think the internet can do that. However, the internet used as a tool to provide good client centric customer service is the silver bullet, so to speak.

Barry….. You’re not coming back? You know I’ll be saddened! You NEED to continue to debate issues with us, it gives you material for your radio show And, I never took you for a guy would rather voice your opinion just on the show and not come back and debate facts. I mean, that’s rather one-sided isn’t it? I don’t believe for a minute that you’ll not return to this topic at some point!

>and I wish you and I could go to everyone’s house and drill into their heads what they should know

Here’s the thing. Move in close and I’ll whisper it into your ear: You and I don’t have to go to everyone’s house, the internet is already doing that.

And it’s doing that for us or against or with us or without us…You either see it or you don’t. The NAR no longer holds the keys to the kingdom.

But, yeah, it’s been pleasure. Work calls.

I say this to both Bill and Teri – NAR has survived for a 100 years because of it’s ability to re-invent itself. I don’t argue that it’s becoming antiquated in some regards – but EVERYTHING is. It desperately needs to reinvent itself, just as practitioners do.

I agree – we are a work in progress – and leadership is trying also

Lastly: Until someone comes up with something better, it’s what it is. You don’t survive a 100 years without some warts and skin spots. However, with that time comes some knowledge and hopefully wisdom.

It’s not beyond fixing; but so long as a civil wars stands between the members we all suffer and no one wins. If the energy and influence that bring people like those in this debate together could be used to find a “better” way of doing things; I am sure we’d all be better off for it!

Once again I agree –

Great conversation, I also enjoy seeing respectful and well voiced debates!

Once again, I agree, and that may be how we get to bring the Association forward -

Just because some members don’t get NAR doesn’t make it irrelevant in and of itself. I see the folks who are speaking against NAR in here and honestly, it resonates where I was 6 years ago. I get you!

I get you too – and I think if you knew more about everything the Associations do – you would get them also!

>Too many people in the real estate industry don’t meet the standards that they should.

I’d love to say you are wrong, but I can’t. So we agree. However, when I see statements like this, I wonder then, how effective are those standards? They truly do not seem to be protecting consumers. Perhaps because of standards, consumers have some process to address their issues, but what about preventing issues from ever happening in the first place? Isn’t that the true reason for having standards in place?

Not trying to be contentious, simply stating a different view of the same thought.

beyond that, I don’t care to engage in any form of debate about the NAR. It’s a useless argument. If it works for you then so be it.

I for one am not going to spend any additional time discussing the NAR beyond what already has been discussed.

I agree that one would need to look outside their own experience in making this type of judgement. I gave you my experience with consumer reactions to the Code and the presence of the REALTOR Organization because it was empirical evidence that your position was not accurate. My experience could easily be multiplied by the thousands of people who have done similar work with consumers and their local associations. The statements do not reflect the ‘it’s not like that here” position you impute, but they speak to your initial statement which was “I would not feel so confident that the consumer finds any great comfort in this.”

Being involved in Professional Standards on local, state and national levels, and having taught Professional Standards in different states for many years, I see a much larger picture then my local market. And though I am pretty well read (contrary to your expressed opinion) and am familiar with lots of studies in the industry, I would be interested in what study or studies you refer to that would trump 30 years worth of empirical evidence. And studies regarding consumer confidence don;t address the Code, because they can’t show what the consumer’s responses would be if that Code did not exist.
You also wrote ;

The opinion is substantiated on a daily basis.

there are a million plus agents out there. The accepted axiom is that 5% are the top producers, that indicates there are plus / minus 50,000 very good agents out there…but it also means that there are nearly a million not so good agents out there.

It would be foolish of one to believe that there is not an overwhelming amount of subpar performers out there injuring the industry on a daily basis doing all sorts of things that never get reported to some complaint phone number.

I could start again by providing statistice relative to how many call versus how many experience bad service or worse yet…unprofessional conduct, but it does no good it seems in this industry as most don’t believe the sky’s blue most of the time

I don’t disagree with much of what you write here. Too many people in the real estate industry don’t meet the standards that they should. But when I read this, it seems to me that you are reinforcing the importance of the Code and the Professional Standards process. In your conversation with Daniel, you mention Stae Licensing laws, but you seem not to know that many of them were based upon the Code of Ethics adopted in 1913, which pre-dated almost all of the state licenising laws and served as a model for many of them, And while I agree with you that there are probably many people that don’t use the Grievance process, or some that don;t have confidence in it, it doesn;t eliminate the many people that do have confidence and turn to the process to address their issues.

And even so, none of your staement abouve addresses the initial issue.