@Matthew I have to agree that our satisfaction has to come from doing the job right rather then any title – And I’m glad I wasn’t the only one to notice that all the secretaries disappeared

@Mark – Really well made point about comportment in the performance of any set of services. It puts me in mind of an insufferable but exceptionally competent Doctor my wife once visited. Regardless of the quality of his services, he was impossible for us to work with him.

when does the ability to provide a quality of intangible service become a measure?

sure, joe proagent may know what T’s to cross and how to keep me from being sued but if he’s a jerk… to what degree does mannerisms and intangible service enter the picture?

I want my clients to to call me “honest, helpful and understanding.” I don’t care if they call me a Realtor, Consultant, Salesperson, Real-a-tor,Broker or Jim Bob so long as we meet their goals at the end of the transaction and they feel as if they made the right choice in hiring me to serve them.

I think that people spend wayyy too much time trying to define themselves as opposed to just doing the job.

I know that I am the village idiot here, but really you can call it Executive Assistant, Receptionist or Administrative Assistant… if you take notes, answer the phone and get coffee – you’re a secretary and the pay doesn’t change.

“Professional” may be hard to define, but I know it when I see it.

http://tinyurl.com/4dv56h

“Qualifications. You qualified as a real estate professional for the year if you met both of the following requirements.

*More than half of the personal services you performed in all trades or businesses during the tax year were performed in real property trades or businesses in which you materially participated.
*You performed more than 750 hours of services during the tax year in real property trades or businesses in which you materially participated.”

Here’s one of Webster’s definitions: “participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs”

I think there are two different arguments going on.

1: Should we use the word “Professional” to mean “Licenced.”

In many areas in life the word “professional” means “does this as their main income” rather than “has a licence”. eg – Professional Actor (vs. local AmDram member), Professional Driver ( = taxi driver, trucker, bus-driver, or even F1 racing driver) as opposed to “someone who just drives him/herself to work and the kids to school.

For example, I’m lead tenor in my local Church. If I sing for a wedding, I get paid, but that doesn’t make me a “Professional singer” in any meaningful sense.

However, my friend Richard, who used to play Andre in the UK “Phantom or the Opera” and earns a good living in the Corporate Entertainment circuit by singing at company functions IS a professional singer… even though he has no “licence” as such.

2: Should we use the word “Professional” to ONLY mean “Realtor”, or should the word apply to ANYONE who is (depending on the answer to question one ["Paid" or "Licenced"]) to work in the sector.

If we said “licenced”, then “licenced realtor”, “licenced landlord”, “licenced property manager”, “licenced appraiser” could all be “Real Estate Professionals”. (Obviously, only Realtors would be able to describe themselves as “Realtors.”)

If we say “main income”, then anyone whose main income was Landlording could call themselves as “professional landlord” (to distinguish them from the ranks of the middle class who bought a rental unit or two in the hope it would be a better pension than their pension).

Your use of the term [A] Licence makes me think that we’re probably broadly in agreement.

Mark

[A] not [the] license would establish the term Professional. That is where the disconnect is and one I would assume if someone wanted to sue you and hold you to that professional standard, that distinction would have to be made.

Mark: Here a Broker’s licence is a class of licence (thanks for giving me the excuse to use the English spelling – it just feels so classy) and agents, and rental managers (who do not have specific licences here in Pennsylvania). Our landlords are not licensed as such in Pennsylvania (though rental licences are required for properties, and business licences are required to collect rents) For that reason, though I understand your point, I would respectfully disagree here in the US. Maybe this is an example of George Bernard Shaw’s famous quote,”America and England, two countries separated by a common language.”

The differences in the business environment fascinate me, so I hope you don;t mind a couple of questions. Does the Landlord Licence in the UK require specific courses or examinations? Does it vary across the UK? Where in the UK are you?

I am a licensed real estate professional. I am a member of the national association of Realtors.

Do not misquote me:

I have never in a million years ever said “because I am a Realtor” – If anything I am using the basic fundamental licensing as a boiler plate bottom line for entry as it requires a professional standard.

A standard is what seperates the titles (regardless of whether you like the standard set or not).

I do not believe that I will change your opinions on the matter, so I’ll simply agree here to strongly disagree. =]

You were a Licenced Real Estate BROKER.

I am a Professional Landlord. (In the UK licencing sense, not just in terms of how I describe myself.)

Both of us are “Real Estate Professionals”.

There is a huge difference between saying:

1: “We, as Realtors, are Real Estate Professionals”.
or
2: “We, as Realtors, are the ONLY Real Estate Professionals. Professional Landlords, Property Managers, Attorneys specialising in Real Estate, Appraisers, Property Developers, and Bankers are NOT Real Estate Professionals.”

Realtors are salespeople, or brokers…. sales and brokerage is by far from the only part of the industry that can be called a “profession.”

I am a licensed real estate professional, not a Mortgage Professional because I may help someone get prequalified or apply myself for a real estate loan.

In saying this does not detract from the fact that one is professional in all that they do.

My definition of a “real estate professional,” and only for myself is this –

I advocate for and represent my clients’ best interests. I guide and advise as appropriate and necessary; my clients come first. My commission is vital to my success and survival, but it is not my focus. My word is my bond and I will not sacrifice my integrity for anybody or any transaction, even if my survival depends on that sacrifice; the Realtor Code of Ethics is secondary.

In any event, this won’t be a 100 comment thread, at least not one I am going to be participating in, so you can have the last word as always. Done with this. This “non-real estate professional” actually has some houses to buy and sell today. Have a great week.

I didn’t say anything about commissions, and I certainly never indicated that I viewed commissions or fees as sacrosanct. And your comment about a caste system is just so off the wall I don’t understand it. Are you indicating that I think that we are somehow superior because we are intermediaries?

My post does not indicate that any professionals in any related field are not professional, they are just different. They may be staging professionals, or Title professionals, or mortgage professionals, but they are not IMHO real estate professionals.

Title Professionals that I know (including the ones that work in my title company) do not consider themselves real estate professionals, though they are professionals who work in a real estate related business. They are in the Title Insurance Business. They have their own professional organizations, and their own issues. They are in fact Insurance Professionals, not real estate professionals.

As far as my argument being pointless, I wasn’t making any argument, as I mentioned earlier, I was looking for other people’s opinions.

Contrary to your assertion this isn’t about how I look at myself, or even how I look at others. Most people are defined in many different ways. They can be a coach or referee or real estate professional , Dad, Son, brother, Investor, or Lawyer, all at once. Me, I’m a Father, Husband,Friend, Business Owner, Landlord, Tenant, Mortgage Lender, Real Estate Professional, Instructor, Writer, Entrepreneur, Eagles & Sixers fan, Comic Book Collector, Reader, and much more. And after Father, Husband, and Friend, and then being prioritized first to business and then to leisure, those things come in no particular order of importance to me.

And finally in response to your statement “I find solace in not having to have someone like you define that which we do and succeed at.” – You seem very insecure – What in this post indicates to you that I am trying to define what you do or what success is for you? All I’m trying to do is find out what other people think about a definition of a term. Don’t take it so personally Barry – Its really not all about you.